Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Introduce yourself, show your set up, discuss tips, ask questions, and more!
pbloom3
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:13 pm

Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by pbloom3 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:31 pm

I started on 3/11/2020 and am enjoying playgound sessions very much. I'm age 64.
I'm in bootcamp - rookie tour Lesson 37 Counting Practice.
I've also been working on Reading Music - Staff Notation (Rookie) and have completed through lesson 8 - Grand Staff.

My question is in regards to reading the music with both-hands practice.
Up to this point i have tried to say in my head the letter of the note on the staff as I play it - for the most part.

As the 2-hand practice becomes more challenging I'm finding I can't do this very well. So, I first practice the left
hand, then the right hand, then both. Instead of relating the staff to the key to press by note, I find myself using
the relative position on the staff. So, if I'm on the treble clef and the note I am playing is F, I see the next note is
on the next space line above and I think to go up two keys instead of thinking that's an A and playing this key.
In the last step (7) in lesson 37 I could only get to 100% by remembering the hand movement a bit.
Are these approaches alright? I'm trying not to move on to following lessons until I 'get it' and am not sure if I 'get it'
this time. I always make sure I get to 100% before moving on - as well as feeling that I 'get it'.
Thanks very much,
Paul Bloom

SJunior22
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by SJunior22 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:57 am

Hello pbloom3!

Please allow me to offer on how I read music and trying to memorizing the specific notes per written. The way I do it is by "Visual and Navigational". Which is kinda what you described on your post (if I understood correctly).

The "Visual" method - I dont say the notes in my head as I play, I "see" them on the piano. I basically look at the keys and locate "middle C", from there, I envision the notes around "middle C". As it goes to the right, I'm seeing "C#, D, D# (and so on). Same for the left, I see "B, Bb, A, Ab, etc etc." Remember, you only need to know 12 keys, not 88. The keys repeat over and over per octave.

The "Navigational" method - When I'm reading the sheet music, I almost do the same thing I do per the "Visual" method. I locate "Middle C" within the Grand Staff or any notes at the top of the range (the highest note played within the first 4 or 6 measures at the beginning) and the lowest note within the same critieria. From those 2 notes (say, (Treble Staff) is F# - octave higher than "middle C" and Bass is an Eb - lower octave than "Middle C"), I then locate the rest of the notes within "steps" (whole or half steps) between the highest and lowest note played. I use a few more references along with middle C to orientate where I am in the music - the middle line in Treble Staff is always B (unless notated as a sharp/flat), the line lowest line in Bass is G(unless notated as a flat/sharp).For more info on what I'm trying to explain, please refer to this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSOU-J9KHbg

As for your "approach", I believe its completely up to you. If you are getting the scores you want within each lesson/module, by using your method explained, you are fine. If I do recall correctly, Mr David Sides mentioned "pattern recognition" as his way of learning when he began.

This is just the beginning, as you get exposed to more lessons, your "style" may evolve as well. You'll know if you "are getting it" by how effortlessly you played the lesson.

I hope this wasn't too "long winded" and you'll find some use here. Good Luck and Enjoy your Journey
!
Last edited by SJunior22 on Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

pbloom3
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:13 pm

Re: Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by pbloom3 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:42 pm

First of all, thank you for the detailed answer - I appreciate you taking the time to do this.
After re-reading your comments a few times and watching the video I see the idea of this 'landmark' system. I have seen that it takes too much time to go through the mnemonics and think the landmarks will help. I'm not sure how I'll mix this in but will try this out and see where it goes. Just being able to see that there are next steps I can take in note recognition is very encouraging!
Thanks again,
Paul Bloom
Paul Bloom

User avatar
sw1tch73ch
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:23 pm

Re: Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by sw1tch73ch » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:00 pm

Hello Paul.

I used the landmark system to learn to recognize the notes on sheet music. I do also do as SJunior22 says and visualize the location on the piano keyboard of each note as I am reading. This is all very slow at first, but will build up skill and speed in time.

I started at the very beginning learning Middle C. But I was stuck there for a long time because I thought I needed to do "Every Good Boy Does Fine" and the other mnemonics to learn the notes. Much later I discovered I could learn where the other C notes are in the notation. Then I learned to know that E and F are the edge notes (top and bottom line) of treble and G and A are the edges notes of bass clefs. I was learning to build landmarks before I even learned about the Landmark method. Over time I learned them all from the C two ledger lines below and the C two ledger lines above the grand staff. It will work and as you practice you'll get faster at reading. I'm still working on reading at "real time" speeds, but I am getting better at it.
== Just keep playing. Just keep playing. Just keep playing, playing, playing! ==

-- jbs --

pbloom3
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:13 pm

Re: Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by pbloom3 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:19 am

Thank you sw1tch73ch! On top of SJunior22's comments I read a little in the forum about the landmark approach and have seen comments on the edge notes. I'm glad to hear that others are having success with this and look forward to seeing how it works with me. I'll try to report back in a few weeks based on how this is working.
Thanks again,
Paul
Paul Bloom

eileen
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:26 pm

Re: Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by eileen » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:50 pm

I am a senior, senior novice, have been doing Bootcamp lessons for 6 months. I am slowly reading the notes, not using the numbers or letters, and will try using the "landmark" method. Am I ridiculously slow at learning to play? I am on about lesson 50, using both hands and reading the notes but still not able to keep up with the slow tempo without hours of practice. Is there hope for me? I like doing this so will not be quitting but am just wondering how learning is going for other senior beginners.

EFlatMajor
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:51 pm

Re: Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by EFlatMajor » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:59 am

Hello Eileen,

It sounds to me like you are doing just fine. Turning off the finger numbers and note letters are a big deal, congrats on having the guts to do that. Eventually, your ability to recognize notes will improve and you'll more easily keep up with that scrollbar that crosses the music. It is very unforgiving.

No one learns piano quickly. Just keep practicing and progress as slowly as you need to through the program. If piano was easy to learn there would only be 10 keys on the keyboard, not 88.

If you completed 50 lessons in 6 months, you are learning faster than me. I am not a senior, and I do not think seniors would necessarily progress more slowly simply because they are seniors.

I think everyone learns at different speeds - but for piano I think it is different variations of the word "slow". There is a really funny post in one of these forums from a person who said he mastered the entire program during the 30 day trial period! Obviously it was untrue.

Good luck with the program and keep practicing, you only lose if you stop.

User avatar
sw1tch73ch
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:23 pm

Re: Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by sw1tch73ch » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:16 am

eileen wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:50 pm
I am a senior, senior novice, have been doing Bootcamp lessons for 6 months. I am slowly reading the notes, not using the numbers or letters, and will try using the "landmark" method. Am I ridiculously slow at learning to play? I am on about lesson 50, using both hands and reading the notes but still not able to keep up with the slow tempo without hours of practice. Is there hope for me? I like doing this so will not be quitting but am just wondering how learning is going for other senior beginners.
I started in late 2016 and am just getting into the middle of the Intermediate lessons. It takes me a while, too. But I am a lot farther along than I was when I started the first rookie lesson. Take the time you need. This isn't a race to finish first, this is all about you playing the music you love.
== Just keep playing. Just keep playing. Just keep playing, playing, playing! ==

-- jbs --

MiddleC
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:09 am

Re: Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by MiddleC » Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:12 am

I am a senior that is about to purchase a keyboard and begin this process.

Don't want to take the thread off topic, but related to the discussion at the end about speed of learning, bringing up this question in my mind:

How much time to you folks spend practicing?

EFlatMajor
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:51 pm

Re: Rookie question on memory of notes on staff

Post by EFlatMajor » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:20 am

Hello MiddleC,

Should have created a new post, that makes ikt much easier for other people to see it.

There is no official recommended amount of practice time, but if you need a goal to start - try 30 minutes per day 6 times a week. The frequency is far more important than the length of each practice.

Some days you will do more and other days you will be busy and do less. That is fine. This is not a military regimen.

Search these forums for the word "practice". You'll get a lot of results that may be helpful.

Good luck!

Post Reply